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Gandaf007
Courtesy of GameSpot

QUOTE
Who Was There: Zenimax content designer Tracy Seamster and 38 Studios creative director Steve Danuser, both veterans of Everquest II and both working on acknowledged but unannounced massively multiplayer online projects.


Steve Danuser
What They Talked About: On the Austin GDC schedule, Seamster and Danuser's session is titled "Writing for MMOs: You're Doing It Wrong." As fun as it would have been to listen to developers with companies that have yet to ship MMOGs tell a crowd of MMOG writers why they suck, Danuser backed off the belligerent topic of the session right off the bat.

"We're not up here trying to portray ourselves as know-it-alls who've done everything perfectly," Danuser said, adding, "We've sinned as much as anybody."

With that out of the way, he started listing the problems facing MMOG writers. First off, he explained "Nobody wants to read what we write." With the medium being inherently social, people play for the communal experience, not to read quest dialogue or listen to non-player characters.

Danuser also listed a number of other challenges facing writers, specifically story arcs that don't have conclusions. Because MMOGs work on subscriptions and designers need to keep players from ever getting real closure and walking away from the game, Danuser said it's tough to give satisfactory conclusions to a story arc. The lack of a single protagonist and the difficulty of pacing a story for all the different ways players can enjoy it is another sticking point.

Seamster offered some solutions for those problems, starting with the open-ended story arcs. Because she typically enjoys MMOGs on her own, she said developers shouldn't make story conclusions dependent on coordinating a huge raid. Limiting the satisfying story conclusions to those who play the game a specific way could do little but frustrate portions of the audience, Seamster said. She pointed to soap operas as one good way to keep a compelling story going, with overlapping and intertwining story arcs keeping some shows alive for decades.

As for the lack of a single protagonist and focus of attention, Danuser said it's possible to sidestep the issue by finding narratives that emphasize teamwork. Challenges that involve the entire virtual world and players of all types also help. Danuser also said MMOG players are smart enough to understand that the world doesn't revolve around their characters, so developers shouldn't try to trick them into believing they do.

To address the question of pacing, Danuser wanted to see MMOG developers keep a narrower focus with the goals they give players. Instead of giving them dozens of concurrent quests and potentially overwhelming them, Danuser said it could be more helpful to give them fewer obligations with a more obvious sense of urgency and priority surrounding them. Seamster said that was one problem with Everquest II, where players would collect all the quests from a given area before trying to complete any of them.


Tracy Seamster
The pair was particularly critical of quest journals. Giving players a way to track what's going on with their assorted quests is a reasonable idea, but Danuser said it leads to problems where players have too many obligations in too many locations. Seamster said the journals should be used more just to point players in the right direction than to recap chunks of the story or act as the driving force behind the storyline.

Another "challenge" some developers of MMOGs might find is that the players' own stories are more memorable than the scripted stories in the game. Danuser said that's not a problem at all, as the most interesting parts of MMOGs are the tales that emerge from normal social dynamics. All developers can do is create a living world to encourage those connections, according to Danuser. Getting more specific, Seamster said features like social emotes and guild chat are vital because they let players tell their stories to each other.

Players need to be able to tell a story to each other because they won't always let developers tell it to them. Danuser and Seamster talked about the habit players have of clicking through dialogue trees as quickly as possible to get to the quest acceptance, no matter how much time and effort writers put into the flavor text. Danuser suggested they just strip away as much of that fluff as possible, as dialogue isn't the best way to tell stories.

Another pitfall Danuser brought up was masking the narrative. Cool ideas need to be conveyed to players in simple and direct ways because there's too much else going on for them to work at understanding it.

The pair talked about a handful of cornerstones for narrative, starting with an up-to-date story bible for the developers to draw inspiration from. On that same note, Danuser said developers should have a separate tone document to set a range of what's acceptable in the game world. Without one, developers risk having one designer making Lovecraftian horror content while another focuses on Three Stooges slapstick.

Quote: "Don't feel like it has to be your genius and creativity that's bringing people back to these games."--Danuser, cautioning attendees not to resent players who prefer the social dynamics to the flavor text.

Takeaway: Danuser said MMOG developers need to be awesome storytellers as well as great writers, noting that the two aren't always the same thing. It's up to the writers to inspire the development teams and create a cool world, but they need everyone on the team to tell the game's stories in their own work.


I agree with the authors quite a bit. When I played WoW and RS I always felt the writing was superficial. It's up to me alone to do this? But there's like, thousands of players who've done this and will do it... The writing was always pretty good, but the overall story lines always felt weak. However, between WoW and RS, RS is definitely the better of the two. The quests are well written and usually have decent overall arcs, but it doesn't really fit the whole MMO part. Most quests in either game are meant for solo-play, when there are hundreds, if not thousands of people around. I believe story lines should fit the Massive Multiplayer part of MMO. Not be all like "Well, you can play with thousands of people at the same time, but were going to make a bunch of quests that exclude most others." That's one of the reasons I wait for SWTOR, from what they are saying it's supposed to be really story-driven, and I hope the live up to their promise.

I can only hope MechScape will have actual story arcs involving groups and the community and not quests or missions that have very little closure that are meant for only one or two players. It would feel like wasted potential.

Your thoughts?
Lord John
I agree with you. Runescape quests pretty much make the world revolve around your character. Pretty much your character becomes the ultimate hero, having single handedly saved numerous towns, slain threatening beasts and made 20 balls of wool for a farmer.

The thing that annoys me most in the RS quests is their humour. Humour is great, but when you just throw in random lines and puns it absolutely destroys any sense of role playing or reality. If the town was going to be destroyed by a giant demon, I wouldn't want to hear puns about how "hot" he is or about a hero suitably named "Wally."

Perhaps I just prefer serious MMO's where the quests don't seem to try to get laughs out of 10 year olds.
Aslancsc
"To address the question of pacing, Danuser wanted to see MMOG developers keep a narrower focus with the goals they give players. Instead of giving them dozens of concurrent quests and potentially overwhelming them, Danuser said it could be more helpful to give them fewer obligations with a more obvious sense of urgency and priority surrounding them. Seamster said that was one problem with Everquest II, where players would collect all the quests from a given area before trying to complete any of them."

^^ Totally agree, I played LOTRo for a while and there were soooooo many random short quests it was ridiculous, I felt like I had to do them all.
Gandaf007
A bit off topic from the main article.

The beginning of the article says:
QUOTE
Who Was There: Zenimax content designer Tracy Seamster and 38 Studios creative director Steve Danuser, both veterans of Everquest II and both working on acknowledged but unannounced massively multiplayer online projects.


I can only wonder what those projects are. In my opinion, this article could change the entire MMO business around, and if it does these guys could be seen as pioneers, per se. I want to see the games they're working on really bad now, lol.
Crash Jordan
I disagree. I'm a big fan of RuneScape lore and I've spent many hours reading into it. RuneScape has a much bigger history and storyline than most give it credit for. The f2p quests lack story ofcourse, but then you get members and holy shit you suddenly have thousands of years of history.

John, thats more or less the older quests. The newer quests seem to be taking a more serious approach. The Chosen Commander is an amazing example. That quest had an amazing story, and I really felt emotion towards Zanik. It was very dark, serious, and sinister, but very awesome, nontheless.

And then quests like WGS have amazing storylines which I wish people would damn appreciate more, than just do them for the rewards.
Gandaf007
QUOTE (Crash Jordan @ Sep 15 2009, 11:28 PM) *
I disagree. I'm a big fan of RuneScape lore and I've spent many hours reading into it. RuneScape has a much bigger history and storyline than most give it credit for. The f2p quests lack story ofcourse, but then you get members and holy shit you suddenly have thousands of years of history.

John, thats more or less the older quests. The newer quests seem to be taking a more serious approach. The Chosen Commander is an amazing example. That quest had an amazing story, and I really felt emotion towards Zanik. It was very dark, serious, and sinister, but very awesome, nontheless.

And then quests like WGS have amazing storylines which I wish people would damn appreciate more, than just do them for the rewards.


I agree to a point, although I really only find the RS lore... interesting (although, Chosen Commander and really that whole storyline was a nice break from the status quo of their plots, writing, and character development. That series is one of my favorites). It doesn't really give me a strong impetus to keep playing, because in a game MMO or not, the two most important things to me are the plots/writing/story arc and the music score (I actually kind of like RS music).

The writers are getting better, but the multi-player aspect is what really is really bothering me. All these quests, despite the improving story lines and writing feel like wasted potential. On the first day a quest is released there are hundreds, if not thousands of people doing the quest. Most of them are probably doing it all by themselves, and you might even be competing with other players to get a kill, get an item, etc. Instead of having every quest be focused around your character, it should be focused around the "massive multiplayer" part of MMOG.
Crash Jordan
Yes, it would be nice if we could have more team based quests, but not like the shield of arrav quest. Getting an item and thats it, isn't multiplayer. It'd be good if two players had to work through a dungeon or something, and fight a big quest boss together.

Now THATS a team quest.

Gandaf007
One thing I really liked about WoW was the opening of Ahn'Qiraj events. In order to open them, an entire server had to work together to gather various supplies. Stuff like that is what I want, somewhat. Of course I'd like balance, ranging from two people to 5 to 10 or 20 or 40. I find team play the most fun in MMO's, something that I feel RuneScape is lacking.
Dracul
well i agree that most mmo's, such as runescape, despite being MMO's, they lack the true spirit of an mmo. Rather then have quests based around team effort, its all solo, so, as others have said, you end up with perpetually an infinite number of godly heroes all completing the same exact quest.

I think another option Jagex and other mmo's could include is Player-Given Quests, kind of like player jobs or missions, except player's give a quest of some kind with a certain premade set of quest points and/or other rewards and other plays can take it up.

Stellar
QUOTE (Crash Jordan @ Sep 16 2009, 06:28 AM) *
I disagree. I'm a big fan of RuneScape lore and I've spent many hours reading into it. RuneScape has a much bigger history and storyline than most give it credit for. The f2p quests lack story ofcourse, but then you get members and holy shit you suddenly have thousands of years of history.

John, thats more or less the older quests. The newer quests seem to be taking a more serious approach. The Chosen Commander is an amazing example. That quest had an amazing story, and I really felt emotion towards Zanik. It was very dark, serious, and sinister, but very awesome, nontheless.

And then quests like WGS have amazing storylines which I wish people would damn appreciate more, than just do them for the rewards.


You can't follow a quest's story if you are constantly traveling from one half of the world to another. If it takes you 10 minutes to get from varrok to Hallowvale, just to speak to a guy for 5 minutes, how in the world do you expect me to catch on to a story. That's the main problem with 9 out of 10 quests in runescape, and it is because older quests don't get updated.

The newer quests are spectacular. They have less running around and more in-quest content, and even with the newest dwarf quest you are teleported to half the locations rather than running to them yourself. That's what I want to see in quests. Which is why Jagex should look into their older quests and update them. Half of them still have RT3 animations and graphics.
Crash Jordan
I think thats the point of the 2009 upgrade year. Some quests have received re works and such, but they could be done much bigger and better.
Alex
I think that these people clearly think we're idiots. I'm more than capable of reading text if it's good writing for a decent story.
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